Seriously? Dr. Bronner needs to sell soap, not drama

Okay, I'm getting sick of Dr. Bronner's. Truly! While it is somewhat irritating to have companies misuse "natural" and "organic," there is certainly no need to waste the courts time and my tax dollars for frivolous law suits like the one he filed today: The Organic Consumer's Association and Dr. Bronner recently filed a lawsuit against a number of companies, citing misbranded products, namely the use of the term "organic."

Dude, come on. You bullied the USDA into using their stamp without them changing policies to specifically address personal care products and now you think a lawsuit will change the beauty marketing industry? Are you kidding me? Have you heard of capitalism? Do you think we consumers can't read. It may be somewhat daunting to read a label, but for those interested parties, it can be done. Can you explain what your lawsuit will do for us, as consumers?

According to the article, a few companies named in the lawsuit are Estee Lauder, Kiss My Face, Corp., Juice  Beauty, Stella McCartney America, Inc. and EcoCert France.  Dave, I think it's time you got back to mixing up soap instead of stirring up problems and raising the prices of products I like.

What say ye?

Comments

[Xina, Nature's Parlour]

Goodness, I seem to come in on this subject rather late in the day. I'd still like to say that I feel suing will bring this whole subject to the attention of the public and quite rightly so. I'm also surprised to see companies like Juice Organic and Stella McCartney, America in the list of defendants.

Going on the more recent complaint against L'Oriel, where an ex-employee stated that illegal ingredients were being used in some of their products (in some of their territories), I think it really is fair that their should be honesty in product labelling. So it follows that when they see "organic" or "natural" on a product it should mean SOMETHING - what ever it means should be agreed in terms of content and percentage and should be adhered to. How else will the consumer be protected? I suppose another route would be that to qualify as a organic/natural product, the producer MUST be a member of a regulatory body which would be clearly stated on the products...

On another note, is it true that it will take US taxpayer's money to bring this to court? How odd.

deborah... you believe in a free market? Do you veronica? just curious because you both share similar view points on this legal matter.

[Josh Fair]

Just out of fairness. This is just a marketing campaign of Dr. Bronner to promote its products.

How do you think Dr. Bronner saponifies its organic oils? It use a non organic ingredient: Sodium Hydroxide / Potassium hydroxde. This is not exactly a gentle certified organic ingredient. So, Dr. Bronner soaps are not 100% organic.

I am not saying that his soap is a threat to health. And any of the brands that he is accusing does not represent a danger to our health, at my understanding. My point is about transparency and being straightforward on ingredients used to make soap. In his peppermint soap its just stated saponified organic oils, but it does not explain how it is saponified and which ingredients are used. Dr. Bronner went public criticizing several companies in this industry that use and list chemical ingredients in their products (at least the information is there in the back label). But Dr. Bronner does not list all ingredients used in his soaps and this is not ok. He hides information from an average consumer. Most of us, US consumers, do not know that is necessary to use Sodium Hydroxide or Potassium hydroxide to make soaps. Also, they might use others ingredients as well. Who knows? This information should be disclosed. Also the pH of a product should be displayed and informed to the public. As you know, soaps have a high pH 9-10 and Dr. Bronner soaps are not exception to this rule. Harsh soaps -pH higher than 8 - make skin very dry. For example, I love organics products but I don’t like Dr. Bronner soaps because make my skin feel very dry and is terrible for my hair. As you know, one of the biggest causes of dry skin that breaks out is using too harsh of soap. It can also be the result of sensitive skin. This is just my experience.

Also Dr. Bronner products contains other chemicals ingredients in its products like in the Bronner Sal Suds: Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Coco-Betaine (hey this is the igredient that Dr. Bronner is heavily criticzing in the other brands, right?)
http://www.drbronner.com/DBMS/SSLI16/SalSu...quidCleaner.htm

[Veronica]

Suing may be extreme, but it may be the only way to get attention right now. Everyone is hopping on the "green machine" right now because it's profitable. Newer companies look at how these other companies are getting away with using "eco" and "organic" and don't have to front the cost of eco and organic. If an organic company make a claim that their body butter "cures" ezcema, then the FTC will come a'callin' . Who is monitoring these companies making false claims on their ingredients? If WalMart advertised their shampoo for $1 and you get to the store and it's $2, WalMart has to honor that ad or pull the item from the shelf. Who's going to honor the organic product ads? Maybe a lawsuit is the beginning of stopping the cycle. At least, future companies would think twice before adding "organic" to their label.

Veronica

[Virginia]

I admire the goals of lawsuits like this, though I'm not sure suing is the way to make change. But here's the thing: we have to start SOMEWHERE. If we can't take this first step to begin to rectify all the corporate BS and get some clarity as to what marketing words really mean, then we'll never see the end results we're all hoping for.

I know this may seem frivolous, but I think the Bronner family is doing a good deed on behalf of the rest of the industry. (And as a hyper-picky natural product specialist, I hate how completely full of crap most "natural" companies are.) This may seem like a pointless step, but taking a stand and raising some awareness is a lunge in the right direction, in my opinion.

And it may spark action or set a precedent for future lawsuits, perhaps even on a national level. After all, when relatively a new area of the law is explored like this, the outcome of a state court's ruling may in fact be what Supreme Court uses to inform its decision.

[Susan]

I have to agree with Veronica on this one. I can honestly say, I was not surprised to see Stella McCartney, America on the list of companies being sued. YSL who manufactures the product is another one of the beauty moguls trying to get on the organic bandwagon. I think what it boils down to is misrepresentation.

[Samantha]

Hmmm...it's a tricky one, because on the one hand, it would be GREAT to know that if something was labelled as "organic", it really was, and you didn't have to scour the labels and the internet to find out if they're telling the truth...but on the other hand, a lawsuit does seem a bit over the top. Hopefully, the lawsuit will spur some positive changes in the industry...at least it's bringing some publicity to the issue.

[Andrea]

Okay, looks like I'm in the minority here, so answer for me please: do you think suing these companies will indeed make a change in the industry? If so, what and how?

AK

[Debrah]

I have to agree with Veronica--I beleive in free market but with truth in labeling. It is especially aggravating when one has been buying a product for years then the company changes it and NOT for the better, thus we have to read the label every single time we buy something. I used to use a Natures Gate shampoo and conditioner which worked great and was mostly organic then they changed the label to state organic in big words but read the label and it now has parabens and other nasty chemicals it did not have before!I wrote to the company but got no response so I do not buy any of their products anymore. I do not always use all natural or organic products--I have esp have had a hard time finding good hair products that work but anything that stays on my skin like lotions I am more particular about.

[Andrea]

Veronica,

I get your points. I agree with your points. But what I don't get is suing companies. I know people don't read ingredients; I admit that I don't always before using a product. I agree that terminology is misleading, yet who decides what terms will be sufficient for David and the OCA?

The USDA seals calls for at least 95% organic ingredients and companies slip in using aloe vera and water. There are lines that have a fair amount of natural ingredients, more than half, and yet David would exclude them from using the terminology.

In such a litigious state, my thoughts are just "what does he hope to accomplish?" Will he just jump through the thousands of companies suing at will at verbiage he doesn't like?

I think he should give OASIS time to get started before launching what a lawsuit, which, I believe to be frivolous.

But, Veronica, I LOVE that you disagree and please continue to share your thoughts and opinion cause there's always something for me to learn.

AK

[Veronica]

Sorry Andrea, I'm going to have to take Dr. Bronner's side on this one. As a natural handcrafter myself and as a consultant to many other natural and organic crafters, I have never agreed with companies using the term natural and "organic" just to sell products. It's not fair to those who truly have organic products that put the time and money into an organic line only to have some huge manufacturer come through and take business by deceit.

As an experienced direct seller who discovered that most people don't really care what they put on their skin, I don't think that these companies will lose any business if they are truthful in their labeling. (Hey, cigarettes didn't!) The companies seem to be losing credibility, in my book. What harm is it if they just tell the truth? People buy what they want to buy; I don't think that truthful labeling will make or break them. It would be nice to walk through the beauty section of a health food store and see truly "organic" products and not the knock offs.